"Writers are basically liars, but their words on the page are not. The words must ring true or else they will be intuitively discounted."
The very best lies are the truth told in size 11 shoes.
Truth lies in paradox.
I disagree vehemently with this statement: There is nothing of any worth truly “made-up.”
I think you are playing a language game here. Define "made up" for me, please. Everything is based in reality, or else it would not be able to spoken of, or understood.
Enlighten me, please. This is not snark. I truly want to know what you mean.
For one, my statement is simply my opinion which of course I am entitled to have. Secondly, your statement using some of my words are taken out of context. I wrote, '...my interior bullshit meter seemed to be aggressively acting out while reading Mr. Wolff’s remarks in one of his prior interviews. Even Tobias Wolff instinctively knows that everything we write about has some semblance of something we have personally heard, talked about, experienced for ourselves, or fantasized over. There is nothing of any worth truly “made-up.”'
Granted any type of decent lie could be "made-up" but there will still be something autobiographical about it (refer to quotation above). I think the more important question to ask is "what of any worth is truly made-up?" And please offer an example. Even my best personal fantasies yet to come to fruition evolved from something I read, or heard, or saw, and even tasted.
Thanks for reading my post and commenting. But I am no expert in anything and I have no desire to engage in any arguments (even polite and nice ones) about what I personally know from experience is true. I hope I made my meaning clearer to you.
I too, am not interested in argument. Dialogue that revolves around common interests of passion can sometimes be seen as such, more so when that dialogue takes place in a forum such as this, where intonation, body language, and all the rest of the subtle cues we use to communicate are necessarily lacking.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion! I read you for just that reason. I am sorry you feel like I took your words out of context, I do not feel I did so, I merely quoted the salient sentence as a means to begin the conversation. In retrospect, perhaps this was a mistake, I apologize.
And yes, what Mr Wolff essentially said is like stating water is wet.
Language is a finger pointing to the reflection of the moon on a still lake. I agree that everything a writer writes has some sort of autobiographical referent, or barring that, the image of the moon on a still lake.
Myth is a lie. A lie that tells a deeper truth. Is that made up? The wildest writings of science fiction and fantasy or the most inscrutable poetry, is this made up? Yes, Tolkien took his ring of power from Plato and in this respect he did indeed take from the past something he read or heard. But that's what language is, the first real gift that is given to us, and before we know it as such.
"Nothing of any worth is truly made up." I am not arguing with you but consider this: The wise eschew absolutes. And again, you are entitled to your opinion and all in all, I agree, or at least am sympathetic with, the majority of your opinions. But I do not read people to agree with them, or at least all the time.
The hermeneutical circle is constituted by the fact that it is only within the presuppositions of a meaningful framework that we can make sense of a given text and it is only by its applicability to the text in question that we can justify the choice of a particular framework.
From this circle there is no escape.
Thank you for engaging with me - I respect your experience and your education. I too, am not an expert in anything, except, like you, from what I personally know from experience is true. And even this I often question. You did indeed make your meaning clearer to me and I very much appreciate the time and effort you took in doing so. I enjoy intelligent conversation and you have provided it; once again, thank you.
On a personal note, I am very impressed with your sobriety and I know how difficult it is to walk that path, having lived with a fair share of alcoholics. You have my immense respect in this. So please, allow me to share this with you:
Hero’s Dark and Stormy
2 oz. Fool
2 oz. Betrayal
1 and ½ oz. Hope
1 half cup of Vaishnava Sahajiya
1 spoonful each of: Spinoza, Blake, and Wilber
2 drops of genius (garden variety – it has more zang)
Pain to taste
In a container too small for the ingredients, add and then – whip, stir, blend, mix, emulsify, fold, distill, sublimate, strain, shake, froth and then ferment for 57 years.
Appreciate your thoughts and questions. Plus your time. Some of my poetry can be construed as non-sense and appears “made-up” but assuredly it is not. But I don’t know where it exactly comes from but the unconscious might just have to do. I could not make it up. Impossible. For years I used to think Stephen King made up his novels but eventually realized he couldn’t have. Some us do terrible things on the page. Thank you for reading my work and caring enough to comment.
"Writers are basically liars, but their words on the page are not. The words must ring true or else they will be intuitively discounted."
The very best lies are the truth told in size 11 shoes.
Truth lies in paradox.
I disagree vehemently with this statement: There is nothing of any worth truly “made-up.”
I think you are playing a language game here. Define "made up" for me, please. Everything is based in reality, or else it would not be able to spoken of, or understood.
Enlighten me, please. This is not snark. I truly want to know what you mean.
Cheers!
For one, my statement is simply my opinion which of course I am entitled to have. Secondly, your statement using some of my words are taken out of context. I wrote, '...my interior bullshit meter seemed to be aggressively acting out while reading Mr. Wolff’s remarks in one of his prior interviews. Even Tobias Wolff instinctively knows that everything we write about has some semblance of something we have personally heard, talked about, experienced for ourselves, or fantasized over. There is nothing of any worth truly “made-up.”'
Granted any type of decent lie could be "made-up" but there will still be something autobiographical about it (refer to quotation above). I think the more important question to ask is "what of any worth is truly made-up?" And please offer an example. Even my best personal fantasies yet to come to fruition evolved from something I read, or heard, or saw, and even tasted.
Thanks for reading my post and commenting. But I am no expert in anything and I have no desire to engage in any arguments (even polite and nice ones) about what I personally know from experience is true. I hope I made my meaning clearer to you.
I too, am not interested in argument. Dialogue that revolves around common interests of passion can sometimes be seen as such, more so when that dialogue takes place in a forum such as this, where intonation, body language, and all the rest of the subtle cues we use to communicate are necessarily lacking.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion! I read you for just that reason. I am sorry you feel like I took your words out of context, I do not feel I did so, I merely quoted the salient sentence as a means to begin the conversation. In retrospect, perhaps this was a mistake, I apologize.
And yes, what Mr Wolff essentially said is like stating water is wet.
Language is a finger pointing to the reflection of the moon on a still lake. I agree that everything a writer writes has some sort of autobiographical referent, or barring that, the image of the moon on a still lake.
Myth is a lie. A lie that tells a deeper truth. Is that made up? The wildest writings of science fiction and fantasy or the most inscrutable poetry, is this made up? Yes, Tolkien took his ring of power from Plato and in this respect he did indeed take from the past something he read or heard. But that's what language is, the first real gift that is given to us, and before we know it as such.
"Nothing of any worth is truly made up." I am not arguing with you but consider this: The wise eschew absolutes. And again, you are entitled to your opinion and all in all, I agree, or at least am sympathetic with, the majority of your opinions. But I do not read people to agree with them, or at least all the time.
The hermeneutical circle is constituted by the fact that it is only within the presuppositions of a meaningful framework that we can make sense of a given text and it is only by its applicability to the text in question that we can justify the choice of a particular framework.
From this circle there is no escape.
Thank you for engaging with me - I respect your experience and your education. I too, am not an expert in anything, except, like you, from what I personally know from experience is true. And even this I often question. You did indeed make your meaning clearer to me and I very much appreciate the time and effort you took in doing so. I enjoy intelligent conversation and you have provided it; once again, thank you.
On a personal note, I am very impressed with your sobriety and I know how difficult it is to walk that path, having lived with a fair share of alcoholics. You have my immense respect in this. So please, allow me to share this with you:
Hero’s Dark and Stormy
2 oz. Fool
2 oz. Betrayal
1 and ½ oz. Hope
1 half cup of Vaishnava Sahajiya
1 spoonful each of: Spinoza, Blake, and Wilber
2 drops of genius (garden variety – it has more zang)
Pain to taste
In a container too small for the ingredients, add and then – whip, stir, blend, mix, emulsify, fold, distill, sublimate, strain, shake, froth and then ferment for 57 years.
Serves many.
To your very good and continuing good health.
Appreciate your thoughts and questions. Plus your time. Some of my poetry can be construed as non-sense and appears “made-up” but assuredly it is not. But I don’t know where it exactly comes from but the unconscious might just have to do. I could not make it up. Impossible. For years I used to think Stephen King made up his novels but eventually realized he couldn’t have. Some us do terrible things on the page. Thank you for reading my work and caring enough to comment.